The Latest Excuse for Terrorism

I think anyone would have to admit it was a mild response, by radical Islamic standards. The house and office of Martin Rynja, the UK publisher of The Jewel of Medina has been firebombed. The book, which has already been pulled by Random House in the US, tells the story of Muhammad and Aisha. Aisha was the wife he married when she was nine years old.

Of course there have been the usual fatwas calling for the death of the author, in this case Sherry Jones, but these seem to apply to anyone connected with publishing the book as well. It’s a good excuse to authorise the killing of as many infidels as possible. London-based radical cleric Anjem Choudhary is promising more attacks if the publication of the book goes ahead.

I’m not saying I support the publication of the book. Publishing any literature describing the sexual relationship between a nine-year-old and anyone should be in violation of all sorts of obscenity laws. But that’s not the problem for radical Muslim clerics. The forced marriage of pre-pubescent girls is not uncommon in the countries and cultures in which they were born. No, it’s that whole insult to Muhammad thing.

It’s not insulting to say that he had sex with a nine-year-old – that’s history. It seems it’s just insulting for an non-Muslim to write about him or for someone to novelise him. Apparently the book even tries to put a positive spin on this love story. You’d think the clerics would love that.

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10 Responses to “The Latest Excuse for Terrorism”

  1. attendingtheworld Says:

    It’s not insulting to say that he had sex with a nine-year-old – that’s history

    Documented facts placed Aisha (Muhammad’s wife, accused of being 9 when he married her) at about 15 years of age when Muhammad married her. It was in the tenth year of the Call, i.e. the tenth year after Prophet Muhammad received his calling from God to his mission of prophethood, that his wife Khadija passed away, and the approach was made to Abu Bakr (Aisha’s father) for the hand of his daughter Aisha. The hijra or emigration of the Prophet to Madina took place three years later, and Aisha came to the household of the Prophet in the second year after hijra. So if Aisha was born in the year of the Call, she would be ten years old at the time of the nikah (betrothal) and fifteen years old at the time of the consummation of the marriage.

    Even if non Muslims insist (out of hatred to Islam) that the Prophet married Aisha at the age of 9, one should take note that the culture back then, including the Byzantine’s allowed such marriages. But why just attack Islam? Why not look into the Bible and/or Judaism? Talmudic (Jewish) teachings state that a Rabbi may have sex with a girl as young as 3 years old!!!

    Numbers 31:17-18 (New International Version)

    17 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

    Children

    Written in the Sacred Books of Judaism: what has been decreed the way to a holy life by the “sages of blessed memory… whose words are the natural sounds of Judaism” [131]:

    Said Rabbi Joseph, “Come and take note: A girl three years and one day old is betrothed by intercourse. And if a Levir has had intercourse with her, he has acquired her. And one can be liable on her account because of the law prohibiting intercourse with a married woman. And she imparts uncleanness to him who has intercourse with her when she is menstruating, to convey uncleanness to the lower as to the upper layer [of what lies beneath]. If she was married to a priest, she may eat food in the status of priestly rations. If one of those who are unfit for marriage with her had intercourse with her, he has rendered her unfit to marry into the priesthood. If any of those who are forbidden in the Torah to have intercourse with her had intercourse with her, he is put to death on her account, but she is free of responsibility [M.Nid. 5:4].
    Sanhedrin 7/55B [132]

    Consider Numbers 31:35-40;

    Passage Numbers 31:35-40:

    35And thirty and two thousand persons in all, of women that had not known man by lying with him.

    36And the half, which was the portion of them that went out to war, was in number three hundred thousand and seven and thirty thousand and five hundred sheep:

    32,000 women of which 32 virgin were the Lord’s tribute? This makes the Lord of Israel a pedophile, don’t you think?

    It is also a “fact” that Joseph who “married” Mary, was 91 years old when she was between 12-14!

    More interesting stuff:

    Exodus 21:7-11 (New Living Translation)
    New Living Translation (NLT)

    7 “When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. 8 If she does not satisfy her owner, he must allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. 9 But if the slave’s owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave but as a daughter.

    10 “If a man who has married a slave wife takes another wife for himself, he must not neglect the rights of the first wife to food, clothing, and sexual intimacy. 11 If he fails in any of these three obligations, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment.

    Conclusion: people are mostly like herded sheep. They follow and “graze” on whatever is being thrown their way! They seek not the truth not do they look for it.

    ATW

  2. sol Says:

    So what you are saying, ATW, is that the fatwas are for suggesting that Aisha was 9 and not 15? Even if it was a written about the sexual experience of a 15-year-old, it might violate obscenity laws.

    I’ll address your rambling comment, but first I have to ask you as a Muslim, what you think the problem is with The Jewel of Medina? Is it the novelization of Muhammad’s life that is offensive, or something else?

    I cannot comment on your quotes from Rabbinical writings. I am not a scholar of Judaism. But considering that it looks like you just copied and pasted this stuff from the website “Answering Christianity. Islam’s Answers to Trinitarian Beliefs.” I’m guessing you aren’t either.

    However, there is nothing in the biblical passages you quote which indicate anything about having sex with pre-pubescent children. Numbers 31 has to do with the rules laid down regarding an attack on the Midianites who had attacked the Israelites and seduced them into sexual immorality at Baal Peor. There was nothing wrong with capturing virgins and slaughtering the rest.

    There is nothing to suggest that God had any sexual congress with the 32 virgins that were separated out as a heave offering.

    I’ve never seen anything in the Holy Tradition of the Church that suggests Joseph was 91 years old. It seems more likely he was in his 40’s or 50’s, though that is irrelevant. He was betrothed to the Most Holy Theotokos, the Ever-Virgin Mother of God mostly likely when she was 13. Tradition tells us she was most likely 14 when she gave birth to our Lord God and Saviour Jesus Christ, so it is statistically most likely that she was betrothed by the time she was 13. Though she who is more honourable than the cherubim and beyond compare more glorious that seraphim without corruption gave birth to God the Word, she was of an age to be married because Matthew 1:24 tells us that the marriage contract was completed, though without consummation.

    What exactly is the relevance of this to your argument? Or more specifically, what exactly is your argument?

    Likewise, what is the point of the quote from Exodus?

    What is the truth you are trying to get people to see (other than your general evangelistic approach to Islam)? I never suggested that the culture of the day did not allow for such marriages. I only suggested that it was inappropriate (and possibly illegal) to fictionalise the sexual acts of children. I also asked why the clerics were upset when the book was recounting something historical and there are Muslim cultures today where such marriages are allowed, something about which I have previously blogged.

  3. attendingtheworld Says:

    Interesting reply!

    Are you saying it’s OK to bash Muslims and Mohammad but the reverse – bashing Christianity and/or Judaism Talmudic teachings as quoted with references – is unacceptable?

    If you are not familiar with Rabbinical and Talmudic teachings, then why aren’t you also voicing your “opinion” against the permissibility of “sleeping” with a 3 year old? Do you consider yourself familiar with Islam based on what you have heard or what some have written with disregard to anything that stares you in the eye? As in common sense? Had you studied the Prophet’s life, you would have learned that before and after the Message, he was an honorable man and even when he was a Prophet, he was highly revered in character, manners and actions.

    You stated that that you “never suggested that the culture of the day did not allow for such marriages. I only suggested that it was inappropriate (and possibly illegal).”

    Now do explain that please. If a culture has it that it is acceptable, who are you to determine that it is wrong, inappropriate or illegal? Is gay marriage for example, acceptable or appropriate? Yet, in the U.S. it is becoming legal!

    I too am against such young marriages or the rabbinical teachings mentioned above but neither you nor I are the “world’s or cultures'” police.

    By the way, there are no “fatwas” that Aisha was 9! You obviously don’t know the meaning of the word “fatwa” nor why or when one would be issued and by whom. But even if I were to accept your erroneous argument that it is a fatwa, what I posted above by a scholar should also be considered a fatwa, right? Those who want to attack Islam will always use the side that suits them, and not necessarily the truth.

    ATW

  4. sol Says:

    ATW,

    I don’t think I said anywhere that it is acceptable to bash anything. I think it is perfectly acceptable to be critical of Muslims who do or say things I believe to be unacceptable. I think it is acceptable to be critical of Muhammad, as I do not accept that he was a prophet, but rather the founder of a false religion. Nor do I believe I have any obligation to avoid offending the adherents of other religions out of a sense of political correctness or fear. I have no desire to particularly offend the adherents of other religions for the sake of it or just so they will be offended.

    I am also perfectly happy to criticise any religion or its adherents, and that includes Judaism or various branches of Christianity, including my own.

    As I said, I am not a scholar of Rabbinical or Talmudic teaching, so I cannot say whether you have accurately represented it. If that is the actual teaching, then I would be opposed to it. I have no reason to support or follow Talmudic views on any matter. I am a Orthodox Christian, not a Jew.

    I am familiar enough with Islam to teach it through GCSE level in Religious Education. It may surprise you that I don’t think Muhammad was any less honourable than any other political or religious leader in 7th century Arabia. I think his actions, as best we have reliable historical record, reflect those of a civil/religious tribal leader. I have no problem with the suggestion that before his rise to political and religious leadership, he was know as al-Amin.

    I don’t know why you cut off half of the sentence in quoting from my previous comment. “I only suggested that it was inappropriate (and possibly illegal) to fictionalise the sexual acts of children” is the full sentence.

    Thus, it should require no explanation. However, to make things perfectly clear, I think the book as written would be inappropriate to publish, but apparently for different reasons than Anjem Choudhary and those who firebombed Martin Rynja.

    While I do understand the word “fatwa”, why or when they are issued, and by whom, I do sometimes use it as shorthand for general death threats in the name of Islam. After all, those you attempt to kill in the name of Islam must feel they have some legal justification to do so.

    And yes, I know most actual fatwas do not involve the issuance of permission to kill the subject. Sometimes they just condemn people like Asif Ali Zardari for calling a western woman in a skirt “gorgeous”. Of course other times they do involved death threats, like when Mohsen Mojtahed Shabestari called for the death of Jerry Falwell for saying Muhammad was a terrorist.

    So my question for you is whether you think Anjem Choudhary is justified in condemning The Jewel of Medina or the firebombers were justified in their actions. Should this book be published? Why or why not?

  5. attendingtheworld Says:

    This actually takes our “discussion” to yet another level.

    Since you consider Islam to be a “false” religion yet you accept, as an Orthodox Christian the biblical reference made above, or the fact that Luke who starts his chapter off by saying that he too thought it would be a good idea to write about Jesus, leads ME or any sane person, to view the Bible as a book of narrated historical ambiguties and nothing more than that.

    Luke: 1 Many people have set out to write accounts about the events that have been fulfilled among us. 2 They used the eyewitness reports circulating among us from the early disciples. 3 Having carefully investigated everything from the beginning, I also have decided to write a careful account for you, most honorable Theophilus, 4 so you can be certain of the truth of everything you were taught.

    This of course mean that the Bible is no more than fiction written by men who thought it was a good idea to write what they “pleased.” Therefore, the Bible is a book of a false religion: Christianity!

    This is further supported by the fact that the Preface of the Bible (KJV) stated that “Yet the KJV has grave defects. By the middle of the nineteenth century, the development of Bibilical studies and the discovery of many manuscripts more ancient than those upon which the KJV was based, made it manifest that these defects are so many and so serious as to call for revision of the English translation.”

    This is the “word of God” you believe in?

    Compare that with a book (the Quran) that no human could imitate or challenge because of its powerful style, language, deep meaning and the unchanged text that for over 1400 years, not as much as a letter had been altered; unlike the so many revisions and changes of the Bible. And do you know why? It’s because God stated: “15:9 We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption).

    The Quran’s call to rescue humanity from an eternal hell for the likes of those who associate others with God, or the evil-doers (the Pharaohs, Hitlers and Sharon’s of this world) or its incredible divine description of things that only became known to us in the present day (that no human could have known back in those days), its call to disciplining oneself to rid himself/herself from the sins and “filth” of our times (alcohol, gambling, usury, fornication, etc.) and to choose the way to heaven and to reject Satan and his evil, and so on, is the WORD of God the Creator, the Magnificent.

    But you already know that, don’t you?

    ATW

  6. sol Says:

    ATW,

    I see you have consistently refused to answer the question germane to this post regard the publication of The Jewel of Medina. Why are you not willing to either support or condemn the views espoused by Anjem Choudhary and the actions of those who firebombed the home and office of Martin Rynja?

    All of this about Rabbinical literature or the Bible vs. the Quran has nothing to do with the actual topic of the blog post.

    That being said, you have made some observations about the Bible which range from the almost true to the downright silly. Christians believe that Scripture was given by inspiration of God (II Tim 3:16; II Peter 1:20-21). Most Christians do not hold to the dictation method of inspiration, which is pretty much universally held by Muslims with regard to the Quran. This does not mean that the Bible is fiction, but rather that God was not limited by having to repeat the words over and over through the agency of an angel, as Muhammad claimed to have received al-Alaq, or any other fashion. We believe that the work of the Holy Spirit was sufficient to guide men to write those things that would eventually be compiled as the Holy Scriptures. We also believe that the Holy Spirit guided the Fathers of the Church to accept those writings which were particularly inspired.

    However, to say that the Quran is not ambiguous, despite the claim of Islam regarding its dictated source, is to misrepresent he development of Islamic teaching and beliefs with regard to the many schools of thought and jurisprudence. As we both know this goes far beyond the Sunni/Shia split, which is quite fundamental, to a wide variety of interpretation regarding a wide variety of passages from the Quran. If the Quran were dictated from God, then it should be completely unambiguous and all Muslims should agree on what every bit of it means.

    As for the “Preface to the Bible (KJV)” which you copied and pasted from a Muslim website (it could be the one you used in your last comment, because it is found there), it is a preface to a particular printing of the Revised Standard Version (RSV). It is not itself Scripture, but a comment expressing the view of some scholars that a particular English translation might not be as good as it could have been, for various reasons. It hardly reflects “the opinion of Christendom” (as your source calls it) given that most of Christendom does not speak or read English. When you are dealing with a holy book that can be translated into languages other people can read (rather than making other people learn one language so they can read it), the issues of accurate transmission of the text are different.

    You need to also realise that you are trying to attack a Protestant view of the Bible on an Orthodox blog. For more information on my view of Holy Scripture you can see a previous post.

    Now, all this aside and back to the topic of this post, what do you think of the publication of The Jewel of Medina and the violent threats and responses to it?

  7. attendingtheworld Says:

    You need to understand something quite basic. All issues are secondary when you make an ignorant and uneducated baseless claim that a religion or a Prophet is false.

    When you begin an attack, you must expect the same. 99% of practicing Muslims live honorable lives, loving their neighbors all the way to the 7th neighbor, helping the poor and homeless regarding of faith (compare that to Christian sects offering help to the homeless on the condition that they “believe” in “their” Jesus and praying in their “own” church!) and so on. 99% of practicing Muslims do not get drunk on the weekend, commit adultery and then go to Church on Sunday asking for forgiveness from yet another sinner and child molester sitting behind a box!

    You would not dare attack a Jewish figure or Prophet because you know, where you are, you will be attacked as an anti-Semite and even lose your “glamorous” position. This “luxury” that Judaism enjoys is not something Muslims themselves can equally use because they haven’t figured out how to use it- and they are more Semite than the Jews who claim to be Semite themselves.

    Interestingly though that you keep referring to cut and paste techniques. Unlike you, I have provided you with evidence from your own corrupt Bible. You on the other hand, have nothing to say but come back and try to argue with this “Shiite” thing. This is laughable. And you consider yourself a teacher? Please!

    Out of the 1.5 billion Muslims in the world, only around 10% or so are Shiite. Out of approximately 2 billion Christians, “your” numbers and dispersion is interesting: (and each group thinks IT is the right religion and others are doomed to hell).

    Roman Catholics: 981,465,000 (16.9%)
    Protestants : 404,020,000 (7.0%)
    Orthodox: 218,350,000 (3.8%)
    Anglicans: 69,136,000 (1.2%)
    Other Christians; 282,258,000 (4.9%)

    Now if this was a paper you submitted to your teacher, I am sure you would get a C- at best! Yes I am being generous because frankly, your paper should be rejected and you should be expelled from class! Your statement that ..the view of some scholars that a particular English translation might not be as good as it could have been, for various reasons. It hardly reflects “the opinion of Christendom” is shocking! If it isn’t the view of Christendom, then who are these people to “warn” the world of Christian readers of the Bible, that such errors are present? Why wasn’t such opinion stated outside of the Bible? That would have been more appropriate.

    Regardless, you seem to be more obsessed with the Quran – and rightfully so, since even in its weak and translated version, you find the truth that you are so adamant to proving as wrong – than with the knowledge or understanding of your Bible!

    My favorite question to all Christians and now to you is this. Why did Jesus, the son of God (your claim, not mine) cry on the cross: “Eli, Eli, lama sabachtani?”

    These are the words of the inspired men you refer to, right? Or did these “inspired” people wrote what they wrote after a glass of wine or two?

    At least Muslim believe in Jesus as an honorable and noble Prophet: one who will return and break the cross and fight the anti-Christ and his followers! On the day of Judgment, God asks Jesus:

    5:116 And behold! Allah will say: “O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of Allah.?” He will say: “Glory to Thee! never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, Thou I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden.

    ATW

  8. sol Says:

    ATW,

    I can see now that you have no intention of actually addressing the subject of this post. You seem to have found an excuse to rant on about Christians. The “ignorant and uneducated baseless claims” have all been yours, but they do have a certain entertainment value.

    I did not make an attack. I simply stated what is logically necessary. Jesus, God the Son, the Second Person of the Holy Trinity, Light of Light, Very God of Very God, Begotten not made, of one essence with the Father, is absolutely incompatible with the Islamic view of Tawhid. If Jesus is God incarnate, then Islam is false. If Islam is false then its prophet is false.

    Muhammad may have been a fine man, a remarkable political and religious leader, but if he denies that Jesus is not merely a prophet but God, and he claims to have heard this from God and declares his revelations to others, he is ipso facto a false prophet. This has nothing to do with the way that either Muslims or Christians lead their lives or translated their holy books.

    Of course I’m sure you realise that 99% of practicing Christians do not get drunk on the weekend, commit adultery and then go to Church on Sunday asking for forgiveness from yet another sinner and child molester sitting behind a box. That’s probably the same percentage of Muslims who do not plot or commit terrorist acts, or force young Christian girls into marriage and conversion.

    I haven’t come across any Christian sects offering help to the homeless on the condition that they believe in their Jesus and pray in their own church, and I have been acquainted with a lot of Christian ministries to the homeless.

    I am surprised that you would presume to know who I would or would not “attack” – which is apparently how you view it if someone disagrees with anyone’s beliefs or actions. It seems vigorous discussion or debate is not something in which you can engage without taking things very personally and with great offense. I have no idea what “glamorous” position you think I have (clearly you have never taught school if you think that) or how you think I would lose it by being critical of someone who happens to be Jewish. I have long been critical of Israeli policy with regard to the Palestinians, many of whom are Muslim, though admittedly the Muslim-led al-Aqsa Intifada has not helped the Two State settlement, which I support. I will, in fact, be discussing my criticism of Israeli policy and action in lessons later this school term dealing with the issue of human rights.

    I don’t know of any Jewish Prophets by name since John the Baptist, but I do know that there were those who prophesied various things at the time of destruction of Jerusalem in AD70 and the Bar Kokhba revolt, so I would consider them false prophets. Feel better?

    There have also been many Christian false prophets, who words and actions I have also had no hesitation to criticise. Feel even better?

    I’m not sure how you think I come “back and try to argue with this ‘Shiite’ thing”. I only noted that there are a variety of groups that understand different part of the Quran differently. Some of these differences are jurisprudential (as evidence by the four main Madh’had of Sunni Islam), while other are based on more substantial matters of belief. So I haven’t just argued a “Shiite” thing.

    You seem to consider yourself quite the scholar of Christian sectarianism, thinking that each group (or at least your lumps of groups, like Protestant and “Other Christian”) think others outside their group are going to hell. Of course this is quite inaccurate. At the same time you fail to acknowledge that within the sects and subdivisions of Islam, there are various groups who are exclusivist and others who are exclusionist when it comes to other Muslims they believe are outside the minimum theological requirements to be Muslim.

    Thank you for letting us know what would have been a more appropriate venue for the information that was contained in a particular preface to a particular printing of the RSV. Since Christians hold a wide variety of views on textual criticism (i.e., which Hebrew and Greek texts are the best to use, as well as what are the best translations and translation methodologies from them), no view could be accurately described as the view of all Christendom. Clearly your understanding of Christian sects and Christian theological scholarship is particularly lacking. However, it is very clear that rather than find out from Christians how this all works, you will rely upon a specifically an anti-Christian Islamic website for your information.

    I am hardly obsessed with the Quran. You brought it up to juxtapose it to the Bible and I answered the matters you raised.

    I am unclear as to why your favourite question centers on Matthew 27:46. If you were to read more of the New Testament, it might be easier to understand. As St Paul wrote in II Corinthians 5:21, “For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.” As he also wrote in Galatians 3:13-14, “Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, ‘Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree’), that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.” Jesus in His human nature experienced the despair of the separation from God by bearing our sin.

    Inasmuch as that is your favourite question, I hope you are receptive to the answer – the favourite answer of Christians – that “God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.” (Roman 5:8) This makes Him quite honourable and noble, though more than a Prophet, and demonstrates the love of a very Magnificent Compassionate God.

    That is why St Paul says of Jesus . . . Who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Philippians 2:6-11

  9. attendingtheworld Says:

    I beg to differ oh “learned teacher!” Your words are simply rubbish. Let me entertain you further:

    You did make an attack – attacking the Prophet by claiming he’s the founder of a false religion is an attack any way you look at it. Had I claimed that Jesus was a false Prophet, your reaction as a “devout” christian would have been equally strong. If it wasn’t, then I would question your love or respect for Jesus!
    Where in the Bible did Jesus himself say or claim that he was God or that his followers were to worship him? Had I not believed in Jesus as a Prophet, I would have taken the liberty to insult him here and claim that he was the false Prophet. Anyone who claims to be God in the flesh is a disbelieving devil! Jesus made NO SUCH CLAIM. Prove it and I will be the first to worship Jesus!
    You can’t! 🙂
    The Muslims who have committed terrorist acts – what an ignorant remark on your part – are numbered! Just like the KKK and their “beliefs” attacking and killing blacks, Jews, or any other color BUT white, does not mean Christianity is a religion of terror.
    Your grade has now been reduced to F.
    Just because you “haven’t come across” anything (the homeless, the Bible’s stories, etc), does not make something untrue. It simply shows your limited exposure and knowledge. I personally have been involved in feeding the homeless in downtown LA and the horror stories we’ve heard from the homeless themselves about “Christian love” and the groups that showed up, insisting that these people first bathed and then attend their church was shocking! These people asked “don’t you guys want us to read your book or pray first?” They were shocked that we were there unconditionally.
    Speaking of Christian love, this shows the Christian reaction to a Pastor wanting to help the homeless!
    Interesting that you don’t know “Jewish prophets by name.” Who do you think Jacob, David or Solomon” were – in Jewish and most Christian beliefs?
    Your claim “that within the sects and subdivisions of Islam..” is utterly unfounded. I ask again, and again, support your claims. Not once have you done anything anymore than expressing your opinion.
    Funny – again that you would claim that my understanding of Christian sects and Christian theological scholarship is particularly lacking. I submit that your understanding of Islam and Muslim is very lacking! To understand and study Islam, is to understand the power of the Arabic language. Imagine studying Judaism without knowing or understanding Hebrew!
    I do not depend on anti-Christian web sites. This is an absurd generalization (I guess you do and therefore you assume others maybe like you?) and just an attempt to “come back” with an accusation. Let me tell you something: I am part of a large interfaith group in my area that includes Episcopalians, Catholics, Baptists and Jews. I am yet to meet as rude, arrogant and obnoxious person like yourself. Here (at these meetings), we have all learned not to attack each others faiths but simply point out what we agree on and what we do not. These interfaith meetings generated great relationships and friendships including lunches and dinners.. in which pork and alcohol is never present!
    Humbled himself? Obviously you think of God as a regular person and not the Most powerful, the Light, the Beginning and everlasting; the One who everything in the Universe He created submits to Him including Jesus and Mary – peace be upon both – and the One who is Perfect and needs not change Himself to any form! That is why He gave us the choice to believe or not. His creation submits to Him. Glorified He be from that which you ascribe to Him.

    I would have gladly debated you on the Jewel of Medina but it’s quite obvious from your approach here that that you would have used that as a means to further attack Muslims and Islam.

    Enjoy the world you have built for yourself…

    ATW

  10. sol Says:

    For someone who is a visitor on somebody’s else blog, you are amazingly rude. To be so rude and also so inept at the proper use of quotation marks is doubly astounding.

    If you had said Jesus was a false prophet and explained in a reasonable fashion why you held such a view, then I would hardly be ranting and raving the way you are. It has nothing to do with the level of devotion, but rather the level of ability to argue rationally. I would not have expected you to say such a thing, because it is not the belief of Islam. However, it is necessarily the belief of Christianity that Muhammad is a false prophet, because he denied the Deity of Jesus and the Trinity, amongst other things. This is not an attack. It is simply a logical conclusion, based upon the fundamental doctrines of both religions.

    I will gladly expound to you Jesus’ claims to be God, even if you really have no intention of paying attention or giving credence to them. Otherwise, I will take you up on your promise to worship Jesus.

    In John 8:57-59, Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?” Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.” Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by. This tells us two things. First, Jesus Himself claimed to be God. He claimed not only to have existed before Abraham, but to have always existed. The term “I am” (εγω ειμι in the original Greek) embodies the name of God as He revealed Himself to Moses. The Jews present understood exactly what he meant. That is why they tried to stone him for what they considered to be blasphemy.

    Do you believe that anyone other than God can forgive sins? If not, then Jesus claims to be God in Matthew 9:2-6 Then behold, they brought to Him a paralytic lying on a bed. When Jesus saw their faith, He said to the paralytic, “Son, be of good cheer; your sins are forgiven you.” And at once some of the scribes said within themselves, “This Man blasphemes!” But Jesus, knowing their thoughts, said, “Why do you think evil in your hearts? For which is easier, to say, ‘Your sins are forgiven you,’ or to say, ‘Arise and walk’? But that you may know that the Son of Man has power on earth to forgive sins”—then He said to the paralytic, “Arise, take up your bed, and go to your house.”

    Jesus constantly refers to Himself as “the Son” when referring to God as “the Father”. This is indirect contradiction to the Quran, e.g., Surah 4:171, wherein it says “far be It from His glory that He should have a son” (Shakir’s translation).

    If Jesus were merely one of many prophets, He could not claim the be the exclusive means of access to God, as in John 14:6-9: Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. “If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; and from now on you know Him and have seen Him.” Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us.” Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? Jesus claims to be the very visible form of God.

    If that wasn’t plain enough, when Jesus was before the Sanhedrin in Matthew 26:63-64 facing condemnation to death we read, And the high priest answered and said to Him, “I put You under oath by the living God: Tell us if You are the Christ, the Son of God!” Jesus said to him, “It is as you said.”

    So there you have just a small glance at some of the claims of Jesus. To explore them fully would be beyond the reasonable scope of a blog comment, or really even a blog post. However, I’m sure you are capable for researching this further.

    Now on to your further comments. I never said Islam was a religion of terror. I merely noted when you described some bad things that a few Christians have done that terrorism – an issue that is raised every day with bombing and threats – is one of the bad things that a few Muslims have done.

    It is a shame that there have been Christians who have behaved badly with regard to the homeless in LA and Chicago. I didn’t realise that every mosque is involved in feeding the homeless. The next time I take pupils to visit a mosque (as I have done in the past) I will be asking about their homeless ministry.

    Do you actually read the things I write, while you are preparing to presume to grade me on my writing and call me condescending names? Instead of writing things like, Interesting that you don’t know “Jewish prophets by name.” Who do you think Jacob, David or Solomon” were – in Jewish and most Christian beliefs? you should read that I said, “I don’t know of any Jewish Prophets by name since John the Baptist”. Jacob, David, Solomon and any of the other Jewish Prophets mentioned in the Quran (other than Jesus) were before John the Baptist, not since. Because Jewish Prophets before John the Baptist are also considered Christian Prophets by the Church, they aren’t relevant to your unfounded rant about whether I would criticise Jews.

    Likewise your rant about my ignorance of the sects and divisions of theology in Sharia jurisprudence makes no sense. To present Islam as one complete set of beliefs without any differences of opinion is simply laughable. I don’t have to understand the Arabic language to know this. Again, I have no idea why such a suggestion has your nose so out of joint.

    It is, by the way, possible to study Judaism without understanding Hebrew. There is plenty of secondary sources and translations available to learn a lot of things. It would be helpful know Hebrew (which I studied at university making straight A’s [since you seem to have a fixation on grading], but most of which I have forgotten at this point), particularly for someone wanting to take their study to an advanced level.

    I must once again remark that I am gobsmacked that you would come to my blog, write the things you have, an have the audacity to call me rude, arrogant, and obnoxious. If this is such an unpleasant place to be, I don’t know why you keep coming back.

    I don’t think you would have gladly debated me on The Jewel of Medina, mostly because I wasn’t even looking for debate, but rather your views on the idea of such a book being published – given that neither of us has read it.


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